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When Things Go Wrong (Way of the Master)

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When Things Go Wrong is the title of the fifth episode from season two of Way of the Master.

Episode Synopsis

(00:00 - 01:15)

Scene begins in a boxing studio. A tough fit man is working out and hitting punching bags. Scene switches to the middle of a boxing ring, and Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron appear facing each other off while wearing boxing gloves.

No, they do not fight. Who would win is anybody's guess.

  • Kirk "This episode of Way of the Master is going to be a bit different from our other programs. That is because we are in areal boxing ring and we are here to remind you that when you reach out to he lost, you step right into the ring."
  • Ray "The Bible says "Rest not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers usually in spiritual wickedness and high places." So sometimes you ay just get beaten up a little."
  • Kirk "This episode is called 'When Things Go Wrong.'"

Episode Walkthrough

(01:46 - 04:31)

  • Ray "Check out these clips from some of our past episodes..."

Shows three scenes, all of which the people being interviewed come to agree with the message of Way of the Master. Kirk covers the first scene, a blond woman the second, and Ray for the last.

Each of these scenes were from people who were already Christian and had a similar belief, so it is not surprising that they would go along and accept every word without giving it a second thought.

(04:32 - 05:04)

  • Kirk "Wouldn't that be great if that happened all the time? I mean, if people always reacted that well to the gospel, but we know that does not always happen. In fact, it did not always happen with Jesus either. In fact, he told us that when we share our faith we should not be surprised if the world hates us. So we want to encourage you, not just by showing you episodes where things always went well, but show you the times when we share the gospel and things seem to go wrong. And this should be encouraging to us, because it shows us that we are doing the same kinds of things that Jesus did."

It would be more accurate that the world does not hate a group of people, but the world hates liars. What Kirk and Ray is doing is taking advice from a fictional character written two thousands years ago in a different time and different culture.

(05:06 - 05:42)

  • Ray "Again, this should be encouraging because if you are going to share your faith with someone, things don't always go right, you will get things out of the ordinary. In real life, someone you speak to about the things of god may not like what you are saying to them. And they may not leave you a word, and you find yourself against the ropes wanting to through in the towel. They may lay you out with a knockout punch. I have been personally bruised and accused -(Kirk interrupts "By a woman!" Ray laughs and continues) and I haven't got a word out and things haven't gone right and this could be discouraging. It can be embarrassing, but we must remember that we are in a fight and we have got to remember that god is with us."

Is this what Ray told himself after being exposed for the banana argument?

(05:43 - 06:23)

Scene switches to two interviews. The first one does not agree with Ray's message, and claims God is all-forgiving and all-loving. The second does not blame anything on sin, because everything is part of God's will and therefore God is responsible for all the bad.

The second person has a valid point. If God does know everything and is the creator of all things, that includes sin and God knew sin would take place and we would exercise it eons before he created us. So if there is a god, then he deserves the blame.

(06:24 - 06:48)

  • Kirk "Imagine how you would feel, if you witnessed to the most hard-heartened anti-Christian religious fanatic of his day, Saul of Tarsus. I mean, this man had hated Christians so much, the Bible says he had them tortured and even killed them for their faith. Now, imagine you just witnessed to him and you watched his blood boil at what you said, and then he throws you into a black and cold torture cell."

Only Saul says that he hated Christians so much, but he can be just selling a story, similarly to how Kirk Cameron likes to brag he was once a "devout atheist" now christian. The Bible says many things, and empirical proof for its claims is lacking. There is no evidence of Christian persecution. However, there is plenty of evidence to show that after the legalization of Christianity in the Roman empire, Christians were very quick to persecute others and denounce other practicing faiths, including destroying their places of worship.

What caused Paul to become christian? There are several explanations, perhaps he belonged to a cult of Hellenized Jews who were seeking the long awaited messiah to free them from Roman occupation and thus invented Jesus from old famous rabbis and parallels from Old Testament stories. Paul's conversion could be the result of temporal lobe epilepsy, since his description of his conversion matches that with symptoms of TLE, but there is no way to verify this.

(06:49 - 07:54)

  • Ray "If that happened to me, I would be discouraged. But think what happen, Steven was arrested for so-called blasphemy, they say he had transgressed the third commandment. He was taken before the council and they said "are these things so?" And then he gave a history of Israel, and he said how Moses was given the law by God and how Israel had transgressed and making idols. And then Steven accused his hearers of transgressing the sixth of the ten commandments, he said "you are murderers!" and he climaxed his sermon by saying, "and you, you were given the law by the hand of angels and have not kept it." Well, look at the reaction of his hearers, they gnashed upon him with nail and teeth, they took him out and stoned him to death. Now, Saul was there that day and the Bible says he was consenting to the death of Steven. There is no record of Saul saying 'God forgive me, I have broken those commandments.' But I do not think Saul would have forgotten what he saw and heard that day. A seed was planted within his heart and God saved him and God's timing, and look at the wonderful tree of righteousness that grew from there."

(07:55 - 08:17)

  • Kirk "Next, lets look a clip from video inside and outside of seasons. Ray Comfort was preaching in Galilee in Israel, things went so well there he decided to move onto Jerusalem. Well, he was speaking to the people and then the crowd started getting restless, then one man got quite upset. You know, Jerusalem has a reputation of that happening." (End scene with a knock out bunch from a boxer.)

(08:18 - 09:00)

Scene switches to Ray in Jerusalem (or as they say they are) and shows a clip of a man begins shouting back at Ray. The sound quality is bad, and difficult to make out what they are saying, and we have no idea what was said beforehand. The man spits at Ray, and then tries to get upfront and personal but was prevented.

Showing Ray as a victim does not give any credibility for Christianity. There are thousands of attempts by Christians who attack and harm preachers of different faiths. This is the danger of religion. Religion raises the stakes of human conflict much higher than tribalism, racism, or politics ever can, as it is the only form of in-group/out-group thinking that casts the differences between people in terms of eternal pathologies of human culture is the tendency to raise children to fear and demonize other human beings on the basis of religious faith. Religion sparks violence and discrimination.

(09:01 - 09:08)

  • Kirk "The man who filmed that clip is named Easy, he is our office manager at Way of the Master. Lets have him tell the story..." (Scene switches to a man sitting in an office)

(09:09 - 10:07)

  • Easy "Now, I have been heading up evangelism teams for many years, and I have been in some very awkward situations, but let me tell you. This incident in Jerusalem was the most intense experience I have ever had. The worst part is what took place off camera. The man was yelling and spitting at Ray, look over and saw that I was filming it. Obviously not wanting his actions to be captured on tape started chasing me around and try to get the camera from me. Now, I remember passing the camera around behind our backs trying to get away. It was by god's grace that we were not killed that evening. you know, Jesus said in Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee" Now it is amazing that after 2,000 years you can still feel that same intensity in the air. Now this next clip took place in New Zealand. Ray and I just finished preaching in the square in Christchurch, witnessing to a transvestite named Billy. As you will be very clearly tell, Billy really did not like what I had to say." (scene switches to a transvestite lying on some steps).

Here, we only have to take Easy's word that he was chased around trying to protect his camera, but even if it did that does not provide any special credibility to Christianity. God's grace played no role in Easy's survival of that day.

(10:08- 10:25)

The clip begins with Easy telling Billy "christ can set you free" and Billy gets upset and walks to Easy and grabs him by the throat. Billy tells Easy "This is my country, we have got rights in this country okay"

Now Billy's behavior was harsh, but we are still unaware what was said before hand or how Easy approached Billy. We are also not wawre of billy' past or any various conditions to explain his behavior. Why would Billy say "This is my country" and "we have rights." The most likely scenario to fit this is perhaps that Easy was preaching to billy that transsexuals are sinners and live a wicked lifestyle. Billy, being happy of who he is, drills the point he is free and is protected by the laws of his home and will not stand for religious oppression. We do not what was said afterward, but it is clear that the message from Way of the Master is not welcome nor appreciated.

(10:26 - 11:25)

  • Kirk "Do you ever feel discouraged when you share your faith because people react in a way that you are hoping that they will? Well, we all feel that way but we really shouldn't. It is normal, if we are telling the truth. Remember, they tried to kill Jesus ten times before he got to the cross. Do you ever wonder, if jesus was ever such a loving and kind man, then why did they hate him so much. The Bible says they hated him because of what he said. [quotes John 7:7 "[the world] hates me, because I testify of it, and their works are evil."] Scene switches to man with long hair and a Iron maiden t-shirt who says "Fuck Christianity" and walks off. Another scene of a person saying that they are who they are because God made them that way and the person will go to Heaven as he is, and walks off.

Only in the book written by people who never met Jesus says that Jesus was hated for his words. The Bible is so focused on glorifying Jesus in a hubris manner that it seems very likely if there was a man at the core of Christianity that he may have behaved horribly and the gospel authors chose not to record it or re-write what actually happened.

(11:26 - 13:32)

  • Kirk "lets look at the book of Acts and see what happens when Paul preached the Biblical gospel." Quotes Acts 13:50 saying Paul was persecuted and thrown out of the region, then they quote Acts 14:19 and say that Paul was stoned and left for dead. Then Acts 16:23 both Paul and Silas were beaten with many stripes and thrown in prison. Finally with Acts 23:1,2 AS soon as Paul began to speak, he was smacked in the mouth. "Think about this, if Paul was simply telling those people about god's grace and his goodness, telling them that they had a void in their heart, jesus can fill it and he would bring them health and prosperity. Well, those people would not have treated Paul so terribly. Paul must have been saying something very different to get such an angry response from the crowd. And he did, he did what jesus did. He loved, he pointed out the specific and personal sin so that they could see their personal need for a savior." (Scene switches with another fast clip of a boxer punching up close at the camera, to a man on the beach.)

Using stories from the Bible to support the Bible is a circular argument. The book of Acts, as for the rest of the New testament only reveal what the authors choose to share, leaving out a lot and including their own biases. Not to mention the gospels have been meddled with, fabricated, forged, and such. Bear in mind, Kirk said "IF Paul was simply telling those people about god's grace...." We do not know exactly what Paul was saying and if the only thing he ever talked about to strangers was jesus. Since there is no external evidence that these events took place, such as imprisonment, there is no reason to accept that they ever happened. We can suppose that it did, but that alone does not give any credibility to Christianity. Many faiths have religious zealots who undertook many hardships while trying to spread their faith, but that alone does not mean their message is true.

(13:33 - 14:13)

The man says he does not know there is a God, Savior, hell, and such and does not care. Ray points out that the man believe in evolution, but suddenly a person sneaks up behind the man (who quickly pushes him away, telling him to fuck off). Scene switches to a different clip in that same interview, with Ray telling the man that Jesus died for his sins, but the man points out that Ray is repeating something to him from a book he does not accept as true to begin with. The man says that there is no god, Ray says yes there is because Ray knows him. The man points out no Ray does not know God. When the atheist asks Ray what does he look like, Ray says he is invisible. The atheist says but he must look like a man since we were created in his "image." The atheist walks away without shaking Ray's hand.

The atheist is correct, it is pointless to preach a sacred text to a person who does not believe it has any authenticity whatsoever, making the whole thing pointless. What the atheist demanded was actual empirical proof. When he asked Ray how does he know god is real, Ray said he knows God, but of course Ray is lying through his teeth or he simply does not understand what the word know really means. Every religion claims to believe as they do because of reason, education, or intelligence given by their god in revelation. But whether they admit it or not, all of them are assuming their preferred conclusions on faith, and this would still be true even if all of their gods exist. Believe as hard as you want to. But convincing yourself however firmly still can’t change the reality of things. Seeing is believing. But seeing isn’t knowing. Believing isn’t knowing. Subjective convictions are meaningless in science, and eyewitness testimony is the least reliable form of evidence.

For example, if I go into my front yard and I see a large sauropod walking down the middle of my street, I will of course be quite convinced of what I see. I may be even more satisfied when I follow the thing and find that I can touch it, maybe even ride it if I want to. When I gather sense enough to run back for my camcorder, I may not be able to find the beast again, because I don't know which way it went. But that doesn’t matter because I saw it, I heard it, felt it, smelt it and I remember all that clearly with a sober and rational mind. But somehow I'm the only one who ever noticed it, and of course no one believes me. Some other guy says he saw a dinosaur too, but his description was completely different, such that we can’t both be talking about the same thing. So it doesn't matter how convinced I am that it really happened. It might not have. When days go by and there are still no tracks, no excrement, no destruction, no sign of the beast at all, no other witnesses who’s testimony lends credence to mine, and no explanation for how a 20-meter long dinosaur could just disappear in the suburbs of a major metropolis, much less how it could have appeared there in the first place, -then it becomes much easier to explain how there could be only two witnesses who can’t agree on what they think they saw, than it is to explain all the impossibilities against that dinosaur ever really being there. Positive claims require positive evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that’s what I’d need –since what I propose isn’t just extraordinary; its impossible. But since there's not one fact I can show that anyone can measure or otherwise confirm, then my perspective is still subjective -and thus uncertain. Eventually, even I, the eyewitness, would have to admit that, although I did see it, I still don’t know if it was ever really there –regardless whether I still believe that it was.

It doesn’t matter how convinced you are; belief does not equal knowledge. The difference is that knowledge can always be tested for accuracy where mere beliefs often can not be. No matter how positively you think you know it, if you can’t show it, then you don’t know it, and you shouldn’t say that you do. Nor would you if you really cared about the truth. Knowledge is demonstrable, measurable. But faith is often a matter of pretending to know what you know you really don't know, and that no one even can know, and which you merely believe -often for no good reason at all.

(14:14 - 14:41)

  • Ray "In Mark 10 verse 17 when the rich young ruler came out to jesus, he ran to him, knelt down and said "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" Jesus first improved the man's understanding of the word good, and then he gave him five of the ten commandments. He brought out the knowledge of sin using god's law. But did the man say "I've sinned against god"? Nope, he just walked away from jesus and there is no evidence of sign of sorrow of sin." (Scene switches to another interview on the street.)

Here is something Ray did not share about this story. Jesus says that no one is good except for God. Well, this is in direct contradiction to Luke 3:50 "And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just."

Here are the five commandments Jesus shared: Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. Notice he ONLY shares the secular ones. When the rich man said he kept them all, jesus said you still have to sell all your possessions and the man went away in grief because he had lots of possessions. One of the commandments Jesus included, "Defraud not" is NOT in the Ten Commandments.

Do you know what else in this story that has no evidence? The whole bloody thing, including the other NT books.

(14:42 - 15:13)

The man being interviewed claims to be homeless and sleeping on the street.

(15:14 - 15:24)

  • Ray "Then there are people who won't let get in a word inch-wise (while holding his arms out to a span of about a yard) and its going to be frustrating, discouraging, and there is really little you can do about it and it is something we have to deal with." (Another scene switch to an interview.)

As if Christians never talk over someone for great lengths of time and not allowing any comments or counterarguments. Many Christians go as far as censoring as much opposition as possible.

(15:25 - 16:38)

The interview takes place in the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica, Los Angeles. The man begins with "if that is the way it is, I give the finger to the Lord. I think it is a messed up belief. Give me one good reason, I have seen way more horrible things in this world then women, women should not be lower level then men in my opinion. So for that reason, I have a lot of problems with .... the Bible is written by men, powerful men, Jesus never said -The Way of the Master fast forwards it, making it unable to understand what the man is saying. They have a timer at the bottom, showing how long the man was talking. According to them, he talked for nine and a half minutes until Ray said let Kirk say something.

While there is no other independent source to show if he did talk that long or that Way of the Master altered the interview to make it seem long, we do not know if this was the bulk of the whole interview or if the man allowed Kirk to explain himself for twenty minutes before sharing his own thoughts. and it would also be interesting to know what the man said, but apparently the way of the Master decided not to share that with the audience. Reasons why is unclear, but if they were worried about time, this whole program is a series of patches of clips sown together to form a program. Perhaps they did not want to share the mans thoughts because they went too deep even for Ray and Kirk.

(16:39 - 17:32)

  • Kirk "I love this next clip. This is one of Ray being chased by an angry woman in Santa Monica after he spoke to her." The scene switches to Ray narrating the scene. Ray says the woman, after a talk one on one, walked up to Ray and said "you punched me, I am calling the police." And the first thing Ray thought was Scripture telling his if he is persecuted flee, so Ray fled but she followed. She did call the police, but after they showed them the footage, the police laughed and let Ray go.

(17:33 - 18:07)

  • Kirk "Ray, do you remember that time we were in Orlando airport, we were walking toward an elevator in a hotel lobby and Ray had given a man a tract (gospel tract) and when we got to the elevator, we found out this man followed us all the way to the elevator, he walked up, crumbled the tract up and through at Ray. He felt so discouraged and we felt embarrassed, we did not know how to respond. And this man said, "Don't give me your blanky, blank blank." Well, sometimes you just feel like climbing out of the ring, but we can't. We've got to stay in, for the sake of people's salvation.

that salvation is just a delusion, and many ex-Christians have "left the ring" taken a look at their faith from an outsiders perspective and realized what a pointless and meaningless "fight" they were in.

(18:08 - 19:38)

Scene switches to a young Christian sharing his experience with a friend who met a Bible-believing fundamentalist. The difference was that this man did not share the belief that God was in control of everything. The man put his hand in the gesture of a gun to the interviewees head and pulled the trigger, arguing that God was not in control because he just blew his head off. However, the interviewee said to the man, even if he did blew his head off, God is still in control of everything. A week later, the fundamentalist showed up at the interviewees church and confessed to Christ.

So God is in control of everything. Then if a person does kill a person by shooting them point blank in the head, or a family dies in a tragic car accident, or a virus spreads across a small nation killing a significant portion of its population, then God controls it and yet does nothing to intervene and prevent it? Does this mean God is an enabler, that is does he just let things happen? Is God incapable of interfering, meaning he is not all-powerful or limited. Or is God simply evil? If God controls all things, then that includes Adam and Eve eating the apple, and thus dooming all of mankind. If God is in control of all life, then that means he is responsible for all murders, rapists, abortions, miscarriages, famines, disease, natural disasters, and all forms of suffering.

(19:39 - 19:55)

  • Kirk "Ray and I were in Canada doing a Way of the Master seminar when Ray decided that he would demonstrate on camera how simple it is to approach strangers and talk about his faith. He had a hidden microphone, but unfortunately he walked right into the middle of a drug deal."

Wake Up Call

  • Kirk "Are you a Christian? Do you not share your faith because you are so afraid of offending someone that you avoid the subject of the gospel all together? Well, if you are not sharing your faith, you are not even in the ring. Prove your love for god and for the lost be learning how to share your faith. Go to our website. We want to give you equipment that will give you courage. Do it for someone you love."
The Way of the Master
Season One Episodes:

1. The Firefighter   2. The Mirror of the Ten Commandments   3. The Motive of the Sinner   4. The Summary of Salvation   5. Practice What You Preach   6. Idolatry—The Darling Sin of Humanity   7. The Beauty of a Broken Spirit—Atheism   8. WDJD?   9. Blasphemy, Sabbath, Parents   10. Murder   11. Adultery   12. Theft   13. Lie and Covet

Season Two Episodes:

1. God's Wonderful Plan   2. Conscience   3. Alcatraz, Al Capone, Alcohol   4. True and False Conversion   5. When Things Go Wrong   6. The Satanic Influence   7. How to Witness to Someone Who's Homosexual/Gay   8. Evolution   9. How to Witness to a Loved One   10. The Fear of God   11. Ice Breakers—Gospel Tracts   12. The Greatest Gamble  13. How to Get on Fire for God

Season Three Episodes:

1. Battle for the Lost   2. Where Has the Passion Gone?   3. Joe Average   4. Caught in a Lie   5. The Divine Butler   6. Why Christianity?   7. Jehovah's Witness   8. Mormonism   9. Are You A Genius?   10. Last Words of the Rich and Famous   11. How to Find God's Will   12. What Scares You   13. Hollywood Be Thy Name

Cast
Ray Comfort — Kirk Cameron

Copied from Iron Chariots

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