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How to Witness to Someone Who's Homosexual/Gay (Way of the Master)

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How to Witness to Someone Who's Homosexual/Gay is the title of the seventh episode from season two of The Way of the Master.

Episode Walkthrough

(00:00 - 00:17)

  • Ray "Welcome to Way of the Master. Here we are in San Fransisco by the beautiful Golden Gate Bridge. And today we are dealing with a subject that is very prevalent in today's society. A subject that must be dealt with with incredible sensitivity: the subject of homosexuality.

(00:19 - 01:14)

Jump to Ray interviewing a man in West Hollywood (Los Angeles, CA), asking if he is gay. He does not call himself that, but he does like men. He was married to a woman once, which did not work out, but he discovered he liked men and went out with men and then was very happy since. Jump to Kirk interviewing a woman, asking her if she is gay. She is a lesbian. Next, interviewing another man, who does not think homosexuality is a choice, rather it is nature. Jump to interviewing a woman in a graduation gown, she retells of a class she had that explained that there is a lot of room between totally homosexual and totally straight and many people often fall in-between somewhere.

The Intro to this program shows Ray and Kirk talking about Christianity and salvation. WARNING: "Due to the graphic nature of this program, parental discretion is advised."

First time a "Warning" sign was given on this program. The real warning it should have would be like this: Warning: This program contains scenes of absurd stupidity, lack of common sense, and numerous fallacies and irrational arguments. Viewer discretion is advised.

(01:51 - 02:07)

  • Kirk "Many Christians have wrongly isolated homosexuality as this particularly wickedly sin in their lives, and used it as an excuse to be condescending toward the person. Treating someone who is gay almost as if they are some sort of leper. (Showing images of the Westboro Baptist Church)."

(02:08 - 02:18)

  • Ray "Some religious people have been rightly accused of insensitivity when it comes to the subject, and some - in the name of Christianity - have even had an arrogant and condescending 'holier than thou' attitude."

At least Ray and Kirk do not condone fundamentalist bigotry, rather they side with fundamental anti-science view.

(02:19 - 02:36)

  • Kirk "But remember, ALL sexual sin is offensive to God. Homosexual or heterosexual sin, whether it is adultery, sexual promiscuity, fornication, sex outside of marriage, or even lust (which Jesus says is adultery of the heart) is simple in God's sight."

(02:37 - 03:18)

Back to the street interviews. First is the man from earlier who stated that homosexuality was not a choice. He thinks there is morality concerning sexual promiscuity and he may be as guilty and many others (that includes women, but he thinks women tend to refrain from sex more than men).

(03:19 - 03:33)

  • Ray "The first question we should look at is: is homosexuality morally wrong? Well the answer is to look to the Word of God. Well, we could go through a whole episode looking at the morality of homosexuality, lets just look at two verses."

(03:34 - 04:19)

1) "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." Leviticus 20:13

In the Hebrew context of this phrase, "abomination" is not something dirty, wicked, sinful, or filthy. Rather the word means something that was not commonly practiced, it was an unusual act. Some people have suggested what is condemned in this verse is pagan rituals, which involved homosexual acts. This fits in with the context of the verse, as Leviticus 18:27-28 specifically says that the pagans defiled the land with such acts.

2) "Or this reason, God gave them over and abandoned them in vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one; and the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze for lust with one another; men committing shameful acts with man and suffering in their own bodies and personalities, the inevitable consequences and the penalty of their wrongdoing and going astray..." Romans 1:26,27

This verse describes clearly how God himself made people homosexual. This passage could also be a reference to idol worship and prostitution, due to the context of the preceding passages.

(04:20 - 04:29)

  • Ray "For many gay people sincerely ask 'why do I have these feelings. I mean, why did God give me these feelings if they are so wrong?'"

(04:30 - 04:52)

Jump to another interview, showing a man who claims that he is what God made him to be, and for God to have made him this way and then tell him what they are is wrong would be cruel.

(04:53 - 05:12)

  • Ray "Well the answers to understand that it is not what feels right that matters, it is what is right. A man may feel like committing adultery, he may look at another woman and say I did not ask for these feelings, but I have them so I am going to leave my wife and chase after another woman. That does not make it right just because it feels right."

Sometimes what feels right is the answer, but this is not always so. So how do we determine what is right or wrong. Ray and Kirk's answer (the Bible) is the wrong answer. Society determines what is right and wrong based on what is harmful or beneficial to society.

If morality means anything, it means that we are accountable to others. Christians believe that we are accountable not to people, but to God. Since God is nonexistent, then Christians are accountable to no one. Even if a god does exist, they are in practice not directly accountable to anyone in the real world, which amounts to the same thing. Since bible believers are accountable to God and not to humanity, they can ask for forgiveness from God for any crimes they commit against humanity. In other words, they can act with impunity. And they often do.

(05:13 - 05:22)

  • Kirk "Some gay people have said 'but I did not choose this lifestyle, this is not something that I wanted. I was born this way. This is who I am by nature.'"

And, surprise surprise, they are right.

(05:23 - 05:36)

Jump to more interviews, the first man says he was born gay (without a doubt in his mind), the second and third guy says the same.

What more do you need?

(05:37 - 06:27)

  • Kirk "Well, if you look at it biblicaly, that's true. They are right, they are that way. They were born that way by nature. The Bible says so. But the truth is, we are all born with a sinful nature. It does not matter whether it is heterosexual or homosexual tendencies. We all have the capacity and the desire to sin. We gravitate towards sin like a moth that gravitates to a flame. That is why we must be born-again and receive a new heart with new desires - desires that are pleasing to God, which God will give freely to anyone who humbles themselves and desperately turns to him in repentance, surrendering their life to Jesus as Lord and savior."

At least Kirk and Ray admit that homosexuality is not a choice (but they seem to contradict themselves near the end of this program). Here is something that either Ray and Kirk do not know or deliberately keep from revealing to the audience: the concept of Original Sin is not in the Bible.

(06:37 - 06:51)

  • Ray "So instead of taking it on a moral guide by what is good and seems natural, we need to look toward the Word of God. Because the Bible says the human heart is deceitfully wicked and therefore it cannot be trusted. It will deceive us. So what we must do is look to the Word of God, we need to look to his judgments, because the Bible says His judgments are righteous and true altogether." WOTM then quotes a Bible verse. "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." - Proverbs 14:12

Big contradiction here. Now Ray and Kirk are telling us that we cannot trust our own hearts and compass. This coming from the guys who repeatably ask us to look to our conscience and "open our hearts" to discover God, whether Hell is real or not, whether the laws are just or not, and so on. But now they admit that the human heart is "wickedly deceived." So based on this, how can we trust it and our emotions for anything? This basically throws Ray's and Kirk's arguments out the window. If all we have to go by is a book written by man that tells us that some unproven super figure is morally perfect, this is not better than accepting the judgments of the Koran, Dianetics, Vedas, etc. And why should we accept the judgments of a mind of a deity - an outsider - to better able to judge human actions than the minds of humans themselves? Has God every been thirsty? The human mind and human actions are part of the natural world; the mind of god is not. Human minds interact with each other in the real world. A human mind feels physical pain. The human mind can know sorrow, grief, regret and embarrassment, while the mind of a perfect deity cannot. Can god shed a tear, smell a flower or hug a child? Which mind is in better position to make judgments about human actions and feelings? Which mind has more credibility? Which has more experience in the real world? Which mind has more right? Some Christians would point to Jesus, when God became flesh, but what they miss is Jesus saying "think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17-18) The law, according to the Bible, originated in the mind of God long before he stuck his toe into our world.

(06:57 - 08:11)

  • Kirk driving in a car on a freeway "You know, I think that the real problem with the way many Christians try to witness to someone who is gay is that they do not understand that homosexuality is one particular branch on the deep rooted tree of the sinful nature. It is just one way that the sinful nature shows up in our life. And then Christians make an error, either on the right or on the left, they'll either try to attack the branch viciously and a extreme example of that will say 'well, god hates gay people. God hates fags and you're going to hell so you better repent.' And that is a terribly way to talk to somebody, I mean remember when I witnessed to those gay members. Imagine if I said 'god hates gay men and you're going to hell.' And what kind of response would I have gotten from them? Or Christians wanting to be so sensitive and knowing someone who is gay is nice and so kind and loving, that they feel they should just rather not bring up the subject; who are they to point fingers and they do not deal with the issue at all which is an equal disservice to the gay person."

That's right, who are THEY to push their beliefs of self-denial and loss of identity? Who are they to tell a homosexual person that , although that is who they are, they are despicable? It is like walking to a dwarf and telling them 'God sees shortness as a sin' (God does discriminate against dwarfs in Leviticus 21:18-23) - so who are they to tell them that they must turn away from who they are and accept that they are corrupt?

(08:12 - 09:05)

  • Ray in the passenger seat "We are not homophobic, we are actually sinner-phobic. We are concerned about the person where they are going to spend eternity. We fear for homosexuals. So how do you reach these people? They are human beings, we love them, we want to reach them. Well the way to reach them is told to us in 1 Timothy 1:8-10, it says the law was made for homosexuals." WOTM then quotes 1 Timothy 1:8-10. "But we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching."

What WOTM won't share with you is that 1 Timothy is considered by the vast majority of critical Bible scholars was not written by Paul, but by a forger. This means this texts was written upon a lie.

  • Ray back in the car "So why should we use the law on homosexuals? Because the Bible says to. And when we do that, we are addressing the conscience. And the reason for that is the law humbles someone and allow you to talk about their specific sins. If you go to a homosexual and say 'homosexuality is wrong' they are going to be defensive, but if you talk to the conscience they become humble, they see you have concern, they see why they should be concerned, then you can bring up the issue of homosexuality and it can be dealt with."

What Ray and Kirk are doing is not using the Commandments because the Bible instructs them to, they are con artists who developed their own little schemes to turn people to match their worldview through fear, gullibility, and trickery. Proof: there is no Commandment against lying, stealing is not always bad in the eyes of God or Jesus (especially when they endorse it), and saying "OMG" is not blasphemy or taking God's name in vain.

  • Kirk still in the car "that's right, and it is important to deal with it. I mean, once a person understands that because of their sinful nature they must be born again, and the natural question is 'okay, what d I have to do?' and the Bible says to repent (which means to turn from sin). Well what is sin? Well, we see it by the Commandments; it is lying, it's stealing, it's committing adultery, it's lust. And the Bible clearly says in both the Old Testament an the New Testament that homosexuality is sin and it's an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Not just to Christians but also in the eyes of God. And if we fail to be blunt and straight forward about that sin, again we are doing a disservice to our gay friends and family members. And if we really love them, we need to be honest. Here is what the Bible has to say." WOTM quotes 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

Not once has Kirk or Ray been honest to gay/straight people on all of these WOTM programs, meaning they do not "love" them at all. If they define sin based on the Commandments, then they are spreading several lies. There is no Commandments that forbids or condemns lying. They are wrong in regards of adultery and lust. They further show their dishonesty by quoting 1 Corinthians, a text that is considered by the vast majority of critical scholars to be written by a forger.

Street Interviews: One 2 one

Ray interviews a gay man who is also a christian (Catholic). The man says he was born gay and always knew he was gay and attracted to men. Next Ray asks if he is a moral person? The man says he is a good person and does his best he can everyday (but jokingly says he is probably headed for Hell). Ray then takes the man down the old are you a good person? routine and finds him guilty. The man does not seem discouraged that he is "guilty" and says perhaps there is more than just the Commandments on Judgment Day. Ray responds, as if the guy is crazy, "There is more Commandments!?" But the guy says that perhaps each individual is taken under a different perspective. He says God is all-loving and all knowing - to which ray asks "Do you know that? Do you think he is also holy and just?" Ray asked should God punish murderers? The man says he is not God and does not answer. But when Ray continued to push the man, he said that he personally thinks if you have done wrong, you should pay the consequences. Ray asks if he is concerned whether if he died right now and be judged according to the 10 Commandments. The man is a bit concerned, but not really since he often asks for forgiveness and guidance - to which Ray points out that the man uses God's name as a cuss word. The man agrees that is indeed very wrong, and jokingly says he may have to go to a psychiatrist after this interview to see what is wrong with him (Ray says he should be rushing to the Lord). Ray verifies that the man has a Christian background, and then asks him what he thinks about the bible where it says all fornicators, thieves, adulterers, homosexuals (Ray notes 1 Corinthians 6:9) will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Ray asks if that concerns the man? The man says it does and it does not; because he does not accept everything in the Bible, due to its history and things have changed over the years, but the man more relies on his personal relationship with God more than anything and believes what his heart tells him is correct. Ray asks if it is a big risk? The man says yes, and then the scene dissolves to another part of the interview to where Ray asks the man if he thinks homosexuality is wrong? The man, obviously, says absolutely not. Ray asks if he would bet his life on it? The man immediately says he would.

Both Ray and the man were mistaken about the Commandment Thou Shall Not Take Thy Lord's Name in Vain. It is not saying "God dammit" or "OMG" it is making a false oath or promise under Yahweh's name. Cussing with the word "God" is not God's name, its his title. One thing is clearly evident, the man being interviewed is a more moral person than Ray Comfort. The man is no deliberately lying and trying to deceive as many people as possible to follow a false and irrational belief.

And yes, there is more than 10 Commandments - in fact, there are 613 total...and Ray has broken practically all of them. Regarding whether God is x,y,z, take note of Ray's responds "Do you know that?" The man was claiming God is all-loving and all-knowing, and people for centuries have found biblical evidences to support it, just as other Christians found verses to say God is not all that. Ray's response "do you Know that?" well Ray, how do you know God is holy and just? Right, you look to the Bible for support. So when you do something like use the Bible as reference, criticizing other Christians for doing the same makes you a hypocrite.

Finally, is this man taking a big risk? No. Without any evidence of a soul or afterlife, there is not much a thing to worry about.

  • Kirk "What about when someone says to you 'I already dealt with the main issues. I am a Christian, I love the Lord AND I'm gay.' Well, know you are dealing with somebody who does not understand the true nature of conversion, of salvation. See, what they have done is they have broken off all the other branches (lying, stealing, lust, greed) that are wrong, but have sanctified the branch of homosexuality. Reserving that one as being okay."

Scene switches to a street interview with a transgender, who changed at age 55 and is now 57. When that happened, her boss for 28 years fired her and her wife left her, then the Santa Monica ruled in the wife's favor to take the kids (and now she must pay monthly child-support). She also has cancer, which she she says developed from the hormones she is taking. Scene switches to Ray asks why not put on male clothes and her problems would be over? She says she has gone too far to go back (the camera blocked out a word) and she admits she had already tried to commit suicide several times, so should she try to kill herself again or be happy as a girl? Ray then tries to take her down the are you a good person? (calling her "sir") and finds out she lied and used God's name in vain before when she believed in God. Ray did not go further than those two Commandments (which he got BOTH wrong to begin with), and she says if Jesus did die for our sins, then she is okay an she is now doing what God told her to do and told her what was fine, and with that she ends the interview there.

  • Kirk "I have learned so much from old time preachers like George Whitfield, this is a famous preacher who is famous for standing in the open air and speaking the truth to crowds of total strangers. Listen to what he said about how we ought to speak to people. (reading from the Evidence Bible) "Secure sinners must hear the thundering of Mount Sinai before we bring them to Mount Zion." He is talking about secure sinners. You probably know a few. People who live a sinful life and they are proud of their sin. They think they are secure. Everything is fine between them and God. Well, what do we do with these people? He says they must go to mount Sinai before you bring them to Mount Zion. Mount Sinai is where God gave the 10 Commandments. Mount Zion is the place of salvation, of refuge, and hope. We must first show a person his sin by going through the Commandments, so he can see he is a liar and a thief, an adulterer, a blasphemer, before we tell him about God's grace. Because if you don't bring them to Sinai first, he wont' appreciate what God is offering him and probably ignore it."
  • Kirk "To learn more about what it means to have a false conversion, please see our other episode, which is entitled "True and False Conversion" and learn how to speak to someone who has experienced that."

We will save you the trouble. Click the episode program below (Episode 4, Season 2) or click here: True and False Conversion (Way of the Master) and see why this program is full of poor and flawed arguments.

  • Ray "Remember, our job is to speak the truth and love as God changes the heart. Listen to this email we received from a gay man who said that he participated in this lifestyle for a lifetime."

"There is no such thing as a homosexual. There are people with homosexual desires. Our consciences continue to convict us of all the while we experiment with this life choice, and it is a choice. For the feeling and desires we respond to are complicated, and stimulate complexes in it. But our acceptance and follows the dictates is a choice. For rampant drug and alcohol abuse in the fay world are attempts to quite the convictions of our consciences. God cannot take what is simple and filthy and turn it into something pure and holy."

Most likely this email is simply a fake. With Ray, Kirk, and Way of the Master's track record of repeatably and shamelessly lying, as well as this email having no valid information and the contents being blurred, it cannot be fully trusted. It may have been a clever construction of a Way of the Master member or a similar Christian homophobe.

  • Kirk "So, how do you witness to someone who is gay? The same way you would share the gospel to someone who is not gay. In love. And remember, all of us have sinned and come sort of the glory of God. Forget about the branch of homosexuality and deal with the root. This is the Way of the Master."

There is no love in this deceitful con Ray and Kirk has going on here. Where is the message of love in their message? That there is an invisible man in the sky who will torture you forever if you do not follow all his rules? What "love" has God shown us? Besides all the natural disasters, diseases, famines, etc. anyone who reads the Bible can clearly see God is completely void of love. He drowned the entire population of the planet, saving one family. He sent a plague to kill all the first-born children of Egypt, human and animal. He rained fire and brimstone on Sodom, killing everyone—boys, girls, babies, pregnant women, animals. He sent his Israelite warriors to destroy the neighboring pagan tribes—men, women and children. Where is the justice in killing so many inocent with the guilty?? Fortunately there is no reason to believe a tyrannical God with this twisted concept of justice exists.

In I Samuel 6, the ark of the Lord was being transported across country and five farmers of Bethshemesh “rejoiced to see it.” They opened the box and made a burnt offering to the Lord, and for this terrible sin God “smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with great slaughter.” Is it moral to kill 50,000 people for a petty offense? And exactly what was the crime? These men were trying to worship this very god, in their own way. Wouldn’t a God of mercy understand their innocent mistake? What if one of your children gave you a birthday card with the words “Daddy/Mommy, I luv you” and you punish them for spelling the word wrong? (By the way, is it reasonable to think there was a settlement of more then 50,000 at that time in history?)

The Way of the Master
Season One Episodes:

1. The Firefighter   2. The Mirror of the Ten Commandments   3. The Motive of the Sinner   4. The Summary of Salvation   5. Practice What You Preach   6. Idolatry—The Darling Sin of Humanity   7. The Beauty of a Broken Spirit—Atheism   8. WDJD?   9. Blasphemy, Sabbath, Parents   10. Murder   11. Adultery   12. Theft   13. Lie and Covet

Season Two Episodes:

1. God's Wonderful Plan   2. Conscience   3. Alcatraz, Al Capone, Alcohol   4. True and False Conversion   5. When Things Go Wrong   6. The Satanic Influence   7. How to Witness to Someone Who's Homosexual/Gay   8. Evolution   9. How to Witness to a Loved One   10. The Fear of God   11. Ice Breakers—Gospel Tracts   12. The Greatest Gamble  13. How to Get on Fire for God

Season Three Episodes:

1. Battle for the Lost   2. Where Has the Passion Gone?   3. Joe Average   4. Caught in a Lie   5. The Divine Butler   6. Why Christianity?   7. Jehovah's Witness   8. Mormonism   9. Are You A Genius?   10. Last Words of the Rich and Famous   11. How to Find God's Will   12. What Scares You   13. Hollywood Be Thy Name

Cast
Ray Comfort — Kirk Cameron

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