How to Witness to Someone Who's Homosexual/Gay is the title of the seventh episode from season two of The Way of the Master.
(00:00 - 00:17)
- Ray "Welcome to Way of the Master. Here we are in San Fransisco by the beautiful Golden Gate Bridge. And today we are dealing with a subject that is very prevalent in today's society. A subject that must be dealt with with incredible sensitivity: the subject of homosexuality.
(00:19 - 01:14)
Jump to Ray interviewing a man in West Hollywood (Los Angeles, CA), asking if he is gay. He does not call himself that, but he does like men. He was married to a woman once, which did not work out, but he discovered he liked men and went out with men and then was very happy since. Jump to Kirk interviewing a woman, asking her if she is gay. She is a lesbian. Next, interviewing another man, who does not think homosexuality is a choice, rather it is nature. Jump to interviewing a woman in a graduation gown, she retells of a class she had that explained that there is a lot of room between totally homosexual and totally straight and many people often fall in-between somewhere.
The Intro to this program shows Ray and Kirk talking about Christianity and salvation. WARNING: "Due to the graphic nature of this program, parental discretion is advised."
(01:51 - 02:07)
- Kirk "Many Christians have wrongly isolated homosexuality as this particularly wickedly sin in their lives, and used it as an excuse to be condescending toward the person. Treating someone who is gay almost as if they are some sort of leper. (Showing images of the Westboro Baptist Church)."
(02:08 - 02:18)
- Ray "Some religious people have been rightly accused of insensitivity when it comes to the subject, and some - in the name of Christianity - have even had an arrogant and condescending 'holier than thou' attitude."
(02:19 - 02:36)
- Kirk "But remember, ALL sexual sin is offensive to God. Homosexual or heterosexual sin, whether it is adultery, sexual promiscuity, fornication, sex outside of marriage, or even lust (which Jesus says is adultery of the heart) is simple in God's sight."
(02:37 - 03:18)
Back to the street interviews. First is the man from earlier who stated that homosexuality was not a choice. He thinks there is morality concerning sexual promiscuity and he may be as guilty and many others (that includes women, but he thinks women tend to refrain from sex more than men).
(03:19 - 03:33)
- Ray "The first question we should look at is: is homosexuality morally wrong? Well the answer is to look to the Word of God. Well, we could go through a whole episode looking at the morality of homosexuality, lets just look at two verses."
(03:34 - 04:19)
1) "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." Leviticus 20:13
2) "Or this reason, God gave them over and abandoned them in vile affections and degrading passions. For their women exchanged their natural function for an unnatural and abnormal one; and the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze for lust with one another; men committing shameful acts with man and suffering in their own bodies and personalities, the inevitable consequences and the penalty of their wrongdoing and going astray..." Romans 1:26,27
(04:20 - 04:29)
- Ray "For many gay people sincerely ask 'why do I have these feelings. I mean, why did God give me these feelings if they are so wrong?'"
(04:30 - 04:52)
Jump to another interview, showing a man who claims that he is what God made him to be, and for God to have made him this way and then tell him what they are is wrong would be cruel.
(04:53 - 05:12)
- Ray "Well the answers to understand that it is not what feels right that matters, it is what is right. A man may feel like committing adultery, he may look at another woman and say I did not ask for these feelings, but I have them so I am going to leave my wife and chase after another woman. That does not make it right just because it feels right."
(05:13 - 05:22)
- Kirk "Some gay people have said 'but I did not choose this lifestyle, this is not something that I wanted. I was born this way. This is who I am by nature.'"
(05:23 - 05:36)
Jump to more interviews, the first man says he was born gay (without a doubt in his mind), the second and third guy says the same.
(05:37 - 06:27)
- Kirk "Well, if you look at it biblicaly, that's true. They are right, they are that way. They were born that way by nature. The Bible says so. But the truth is, we are all born with a sinful nature. It does not matter whether it is heterosexual or homosexual tendencies. We all have the capacity and the desire to sin. We gravitate towards sin like a moth that gravitates to a flame. That is why we must be born-again and receive a new heart with new desires - desires that are pleasing to God, which God will give freely to anyone who humbles themselves and desperately turns to him in repentance, surrendering their life to Jesus as Lord and savior."
(06:37 - 06:51)
- Ray "So instead of taking it on a moral guide by what is good and seems natural, we need to look toward the Word of God. Because the Bible says the human heart is deceitfully wicked and therefore it cannot be trusted. It will deceive us. So what we must do is look to the Word of God, we need to look to his judgments, because the Bible says His judgments are righteous and true altogether." WOTM then quotes a Bible verse. "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." - Proverbs 14:12
(06:57 - 08:11)
- Kirk driving in a car on a freeway "You know, I think that the real problem with the way many Christians try to witness to someone who is gay is that they do not understand that homosexuality is one particular branch on the deep rooted tree of the sinful nature. It is just one way that the sinful nature shows up in our life. And then Christians make an error, either on the right or on the left, they'll either try to attack the branch viciously and a extreme example of that will say 'well, god hates gay people. God hates fags and you're going to hell so you better repent.' And that is a terribly way to talk to somebody, I mean remember when I witnessed to those gay members. Imagine if I said 'god hates gay men and you're going to hell.' And what kind of response would I have gotten from them? Or Christians wanting to be so sensitive and knowing someone who is gay is nice and so kind and loving, that they feel they should just rather not bring up the subject; who are they to point fingers and they do not deal with the issue at all which is an equal disservice to the gay person."
(08:12 - 09:05)
- Ray in the passenger seat "We are not homophobic, we are actually sinner-phobic. We are concerned about the person where they are going to spend eternity. We fear for homosexuals. So how do you reach these people? They are human beings, we love them, we want to reach them. Well the way to reach them is told to us in 1 Timothy 1:8-10, it says the law was made for homosexuals." WOTM then quotes 1 Timothy 1:8-10. "But we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching."
- Ray back in the car "So why should we use the law on homosexuals? Because the Bible says to. And when we do that, we are addressing the conscience. And the reason for that is the law humbles someone and allow you to talk about their specific sins. If you go to a homosexual and say 'homosexuality is wrong' they are going to be defensive, but if you talk to the conscience they become humble, they see you have concern, they see why they should be concerned, then you can bring up the issue of homosexuality and it can be dealt with."
- Kirk still in the car "that's right, and it is important to deal with it. I mean, once a person understands that because of their sinful nature they must be born again, and the natural question is 'okay, what d I have to do?' and the Bible says to repent (which means to turn from sin). Well what is sin? Well, we see it by the Commandments; it is lying, it's stealing, it's committing adultery, it's lust. And the Bible clearly says in both the Old Testament an the New Testament that homosexuality is sin and it's an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Not just to Christians but also in the eyes of God. And if we fail to be blunt and straight forward about that sin, again we are doing a disservice to our gay friends and family members. And if we really love them, we need to be honest. Here is what the Bible has to say." WOTM quotes 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
Street Interviews: One 2 one
Ray interviews a gay man who is also a christian (Catholic). The man says he was born gay and always knew he was gay and attracted to men. Next Ray asks if he is a moral person? The man says he is a good person and does his best he can everyday (but jokingly says he is probably headed for Hell). Ray then takes the man down the old are you a good person? routine and finds him guilty. The man does not seem discouraged that he is "guilty" and says perhaps there is more than just the Commandments on Judgment Day. Ray responds, as if the guy is crazy, "There is more Commandments!?" But the guy says that perhaps each individual is taken under a different perspective. He says God is all-loving and all knowing - to which ray asks "Do you know that? Do you think he is also holy and just?" Ray asked should God punish murderers? The man says he is not God and does not answer. But when Ray continued to push the man, he said that he personally thinks if you have done wrong, you should pay the consequences. Ray asks if he is concerned whether if he died right now and be judged according to the 10 Commandments. The man is a bit concerned, but not really since he often asks for forgiveness and guidance - to which Ray points out that the man uses God's name as a cuss word. The man agrees that is indeed very wrong, and jokingly says he may have to go to a psychiatrist after this interview to see what is wrong with him (Ray says he should be rushing to the Lord). Ray verifies that the man has a Christian background, and then asks him what he thinks about the bible where it says all fornicators, thieves, adulterers, homosexuals (Ray notes 1 Corinthians 6:9) will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Ray asks if that concerns the man? The man says it does and it does not; because he does not accept everything in the Bible, due to its history and things have changed over the years, but the man more relies on his personal relationship with God more than anything and believes what his heart tells him is correct. Ray asks if it is a big risk? The man says yes, and then the scene dissolves to another part of the interview to where Ray asks the man if he thinks homosexuality is wrong? The man, obviously, says absolutely not. Ray asks if he would bet his life on it? The man immediately says he would.
- Kirk "What about when someone says to you 'I already dealt with the main issues. I am a Christian, I love the Lord AND I'm gay.' Well, know you are dealing with somebody who does not understand the true nature of conversion, of salvation. See, what they have done is they have broken off all the other branches (lying, stealing, lust, greed) that are wrong, but have sanctified the branch of homosexuality. Reserving that one as being okay."
Scene switches to a street interview with a transgender, who changed at age 55 and is now 57. When that happened, her boss for 28 years fired her and her wife left her, then the Santa Monica ruled in the wife's favor to take the kids (and now she must pay monthly child-support). She also has cancer, which she she says developed from the hormones she is taking. Scene switches to Ray asks why not put on male clothes and her problems would be over? She says she has gone too far to go back (the camera blocked out a word) and she admits she had already tried to commit suicide several times, so should she try to kill herself again or be happy as a girl? Ray then tries to take her down the are you a good person? (calling her "sir") and finds out she lied and used God's name in vain before when she believed in God. Ray did not go further than those two Commandments (which he got BOTH wrong to begin with), and she says if Jesus did die for our sins, then she is okay an she is now doing what God told her to do and told her what was fine, and with that she ends the interview there.
- Kirk "I have learned so much from old time preachers like George Whitfield, this is a famous preacher who is famous for standing in the open air and speaking the truth to crowds of total strangers. Listen to what he said about how we ought to speak to people. (reading from the Evidence Bible) "Secure sinners must hear the thundering of Mount Sinai before we bring them to Mount Zion." He is talking about secure sinners. You probably know a few. People who live a sinful life and they are proud of their sin. They think they are secure. Everything is fine between them and God. Well, what do we do with these people? He says they must go to mount Sinai before you bring them to Mount Zion. Mount Sinai is where God gave the 10 Commandments. Mount Zion is the place of salvation, of refuge, and hope. We must first show a person his sin by going through the Commandments, so he can see he is a liar and a thief, an adulterer, a blasphemer, before we tell him about God's grace. Because if you don't bring them to Sinai first, he wont' appreciate what God is offering him and probably ignore it."
- Kirk "To learn more about what it means to have a false conversion, please see our other episode, which is entitled "True and False Conversion" and learn how to speak to someone who has experienced that."
- Ray "Remember, our job is to speak the truth and love as God changes the heart. Listen to this email we received from a gay man who said that he participated in this lifestyle for a lifetime."
"There is no such thing as a homosexual. There are people with homosexual desires. Our consciences continue to convict us of all the while we experiment with this life choice, and it is a choice. For the feeling and desires we respond to are complicated, and stimulate complexes in it. But our acceptance and follows the dictates is a choice. For rampant drug and alcohol abuse in the fay world are attempts to quite the convictions of our consciences. God cannot take what is simple and filthy and turn it into something pure and holy."
- Kirk "So, how do you witness to someone who is gay? The same way you would share the gospel to someone who is not gay. In love. And remember, all of us have sinned and come sort of the glory of God. Forget about the branch of homosexuality and deal with the root. This is the Way of the Master."
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